Eric Van Lustbader

BIO

Eric Van Lustbader is the author of more than twenty-five best-selling novels, including THE NINJA, a New York Times bestseller for 24 weeks, in which he introduced Nicholas Linnear, one of modern fictions most beloved and enduring heroes. His New York Times bestselling novel, THE TESTAMENT, was published in September, 2006 and in paperback in August, 2007.

His novels have been translated into over twenty languages; his books are best-sellers worldwide and are so popular whole sections of bookstores from Bangkok to Dublin are devoted to them. THE NINJA was sold to 20th Century-Fox. It is now in pre-production.

Mr. Lustbader is a graduate of Columbia College, with a degree in Sociology. Before turning to writing full time, he enjoyed highly successful careers in the New York City public school system, where he holds licenses in both elementary and early childhood education, and in the music business. He is a second-level Reiki master.

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INTERVIEW

September 2006

Eric Van Lustbader has written a number of bestselling novels, including THE NINJA (his first thriller) and THE BOURNE LEGACY, a continuation of Robert Ludlum's Jason Bourne series. In this interview, Lustbader describes the focus of his latest stand-alone novel, THE TESTAMENT, and its relation to today's social and political climate. He also elaborates on his goal to introduce his readers to a variety of civilizations and histories, explains his fascination with father-son relationships, and discusses the personal elements he infuses into all of his books.

Question: Your blockbuster bestsellers THE NINJA (1980) and THE BOURNE LEGACY (2005) have both revolved around secret organizations and the role of the outsider operating on the peripheries of society. In THE TESTAMENT you focus on two feuding secret societies: the Order of Gnostic Observatines and the Knights of St. Clement. What do you find so intriguing about individuals and organizations that operate outside of the "normal" world? And why do you think your readers are so fascinated by these secret societies?

Eric Van Lustbader: I grew up feeling that there was a secret history to the world, one we weren't being taught in school. No doubt, this came from the fact that I began to write at the age of seven. A writer, by definition, is an outsider. He needs to have the ability to stand back from society --- to detach himself from it --- in order to see it for what it really is and to comment intelligently on it. Even though I write fiction, it's been my goal from the beginning to introduce readers to different civilizations, different histories, especially the histories of secret societies. I've always wanted them to come away from my books learning or understanding something new --- especially about themselves.

And, of course, there are the outsiders within the Voire Dei, as the main character, Bravo's world is called. The women of Voire Dei are outsiders even from their fellow order members. The important question of women's roles within the Voire Dei is one of my favorite aspects of the book. And then there's Bravo. As THE TESTAMENT begins, he's something of an outsider to the "normal" world, because with his training his father has prepared him for the world of Voire Dei. In this sense, he's very much like Nicholas Linnear, the protagonist of THE NINJA, who is half-Caucasian, half-Asian.

By now, my readers understand that much of what is interesting occurs in secret societies because they operate outside the law. It's the most natural thing in the world for most people to harbor a fantasy to be free of rules and regulations. They also have an increasing hunger to know all the things they're not being told or think they're not being told.

Q: Both the Order of Gnostic Observatines and the Knights of St. Clement operate in a clandestine world called the Voire Dei, or the truth of God. The Voire Dei seems like the ultimate society of outsiders. Why do these groups occur again and again throughout history and what part does faith play in the formation of these groups?

EVL: Human nature being what it is, there are always individuals who choose or are forced to operate outside of society. These individuals can, of course, work alone. Some do. But others seek to form a new society --- a secret one, hidden in the shadows. Some feel protected there, others see it as a base from which to accumulate and wield power, without the interference of society.

Faith, I think, plays an enormous part in secret societies, whether they be religious or secular. Faith is one of those wonderful elastic concepts that can be applied to many things: faith in God, faith in an ideal, in a goal, in loyalty, in being of like mind. These last two are by far the most important areas for me because they cover the entire spectrum from religious orders, to criminal families, to terrorist cadres.

Q: Do you believe such societies are actually at work right now?

EVL: To my knowledge, the Order of Gnostic Observatines and the Knights of St. Clement, though based on hard research, don't exist today --- at least, not as I've depicted them. Then why, one might ask, did I create them at all? The answer is simple: the story dictated it. The origins of what is happening now began with the Crusades and came to a climax in the 14th and 15th centuries. It was logical, then, for my story to start there. It was also logical that the story involve religious orders, since in that era power was concentrated in Christendom's religious center. The story, like all good stories, dictated conflict. To that end, I created two opposing religious orders: one that was the strong right arm of the pope, the other that was a breakaway order, labeled heretical by the pope as a way of stopping it from gaining power. This much is historical fact. The motives and missions I attribute to the orders in Bravo are, however, my own invention.

Q: You are known for the historical detail with which you imbue your novels. How do you incorporate your background of research into the historical and sociological implications of religious conflict into the writing of THE TESTAMENT?

EVL: Ever since majoring in Sociology at Columbia College, I've been fascinated by how history informs the thinking and actions, not only of individuals, but of groups and, even, countries. That's why, before I wrote a word of my first thriller, THE NINJA in 1980, I steeped myself in the history, legends and lore of Japan. It seemed logical to me to have whole sections take place in the Japan of 1947-49, because the events that transpired then literally created the action in the present. Ever since then, each one of my 25 thrillers has had a historical basis.

For THE TESTAMENT I turned my historical eye toward Europe and the Middle East because it seemed to me that current --- and future --- world events are being informed by what happened in the Middle East during the Crusades, and for several centuries afterward, when the "Levant," as the Middle East was known then, was forcibly opened up to trade by the Venetians, the Genoese, the Florentines (all separate Italian city-states at the time) as well as the Spanish, the Flemish and other European countries. But the Levant was really opened up by the pope during the Crusades, when almost all the power and money in the world was concentrated in his hands. In the rise of the fundamentalist Christian movement in the United States, and the informing of some American foreign policy by religious beliefs, history seems to be repeating itself.

Q: You mention the Crusades and the way history seems to be repeating itself. Do you believe the world is currently embroiled in a religious war?

EVL: The evidence is there for anyone to see. At the present time, it's mainly a war within religions, involving escalating enmity between fundamentalists and secularists. You can see the damage it has already inflicted not only in the Middle East, where everyone's attention is currently focused, but also in Russia, Ukraine, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc., countries that have massive Muslim populations. I think it's going to be a major part of our life for decades to come.

But calling it a religious war is making something complex appear simple. Islamic extremists certainly talk of America's growing involvement in the Middle East in terms of an invasion, a new Crusade that endangers their radical interpretation of Islam and their way of life. In fact, however, it seems clear that beneath the rhetoric they believe that we're in the Middle East to protect our strategic oil interests.

On the other hand, you have the secular government of the United States waging a war on terror. But high up within that government you have Christian conservative elements with policy-making authority, men who sometimes invoke the name of God in the performance of their policies, which only serves to strengthen the extreme Islamic contention that they are, indeed, waging a holy war.

Q: Would it be dangerous for the Bush administration to label the "War on Terror" as a religious war? What are the implications? Wouldn't it fracture the essence of American democracy if the US was to use its power against a certain group?

EVL: It would be terribly dangerous because labeling it "a religious war" would, as you say, target a specific religious group --- at least in the minds of many. This would be completely wrong. I've gone to great lengths in my novels to have characters say that Islam is a religion of peace. The vast majority of Muslims here, and around the world, are wonderful, thoughtful, law-abiding citizens, who contribute in all ways to their families, their communities and their countries. The war I am speaking of is between and against extremists of all types. Muslim extremists --- to take one example --- target not only Westerners, but also secular Muslims.

But this is a new kind of war. Because it is less about territorial aggression than exporting and safeguarding religion and culture there is more opportunity for dialog, more ways, it seems to me, to find a solution that does not necessarily lead to continuous war and loss of life.

Q: You mention that there is more opportunity for dialog in this new kind of war --- and indeed, there are Muslims that assist Bravo in the book. Is there a way to build bridges between religious groups in order to bring peace?

EVL: Yes, absolutely. Personally, I don't believe that violence on our part is the way to battle Muslim extremism. In fact, I think it only continues the cycle of hate and violence. What we have to understand is that the hatred of the West --- particularly America --- is taught in fundamentalist schools from a very early age. Every year, there is a new crop of young men prepared to go out as suicide bombers, and give their lives for their cause. The only way to break this cycle is to find ways to reeducate these people.

In this respect, the moderate Muslims (the vast majority) are our best resource. This kind of initiative takes time --- something Americans have difficulty understanding or even believing. We're part of an instantaneous society that wants everything immediately. In the meantime, we do have to be vigilant and beef up our security organizations. The best way to do that is to find the people who are fluent in all forms of Arabic, who are Arabists, who really understand the people who want to hurt us, and can help us be more pro-active against terrorists, not simply reactive.

Q: It will surprise some readers that Bravo is intent on making sure that the Quintessence does not fall into the hands of the Pope or those working for him. What is behind the Order's longtime devotion to keeping the Testament and the Quintessence hidden?

EVL: There are a number of considerations here, all of them complex and moralistic in nature. For one thing, the Quintessence is the literal presence of God on earth. It was (presumably) made by Him. So in a very real sense, the Quintessence is not of this earth, not subject to earthly laws. For another, the temptation to do evil with it was a subject much debated in the Order's inner circle. Human nature being what it is, there is a tendency within individuals to want power and, having it, to want more. The Quintessence represents the ultimate power --- extended life, perhaps (who knows?) even immortality.

If a pope lived behind his lifetime, perhaps that would be a good thing. But what if it wasn't? What if the pope was corrupt, or corruptible? What if, even worse from a religious/humanistic point of view, the use of the Quintessence corrupted him? Finally, we come to an even larger question. Human beings have a natural life span. What would happen if you introduced a substance that radically extended that life span? The implications --- for war, territorial rights, massive overpopulation, world-wide famine --- are as staggering as they are terrifying. These are the conclusions the Order arrived at. One might logically ask: then why not destroy the Quintessence? The answer is simple: who among us could destroy something that God made?

Q: Is there an actual historical record of the "Secret Gospel according to Mark," also known as the "Testament of Jesus Christ?" And if so, are there implications in it that Jesus was not the son of God?

EVL: The so-called "Secret Gospel" was discovered in 1958 by Prof. Morton Smith at the Mar Saba monastery, near Jerusalem. The document is part of a letter apparently from Clement of Alexandria, a "Secret Gospel of Mark," which he claims is in the custody of the Church in Alexandria. It is being kept secret, the letter states, because the Gospel recounts a story of Jesus performing a miracle.

"[Jesus] could admit his followers to the kingdom of God, and he could do it in some special way, so that they were not there merely by anticipation, nor by virtue of belief and obedience, nor by some other figure of speech, but were really, actually, in…."

This contention is as radical as it is heretical. To many Christians the idea that Jesus could perform magical feats was a dangerous departure from the usual historical/religious scholarship which is steadfast in its belief that there was nothing supernatural to what the historical Jesus did or said.

Like all good novelists I've taken a "what if" stance. What if the Gospel of Mark is correct? What if Jesus was a miracle worker? Jesus anointed Lazarus when he resurrected him. What if that oil was the Quintessence, the Holy Grail of all Alchemists, which they called the Fifth Element: God-stuff. Extrapolating further, what if the Disciples used the Quintessence to resurrect Jesus? Would he still be the son of God? These are controversial questions both from a religious and a historical perspective that THE TESTAMENT asks and seeks to answer.

Q: From Jenny to Camille to the Anchorite nun, you've created a variety of strong and powerful female characters --- what is the role of women in THE TESTAMENT? Is there room for women in the religious war?

EVL: Why wouldn't there be? From the time I first began to write, I created strong female characters. I suppose that's because most of my best friends are women. I was never the kind of guy who sat around watching sports with my male friends and drinking beer. Women fascinate me, so I've always written about them. Frankly, I think women are particularly suited for the religious wars. Here's why: 1. Their first instinct isn't to shoot first and ask questions later. 2. Because women in general are more flexible, they're most likely to come up with alternative solutions to situations that seem cut-and-dried to men.

Q: Why did Bravo's father feel the need to hide his involvement in the Order from Bravo? Why was Jenny brought into the order at a young age and Bravo protected?

EVL: Bravo's mother --- who knew what Dexter did and how dangerous a life it was --- made it clear that she didn't want Bravo exposed to the order, as Dexter wanted. Bravo's parents came to a compromise: Dexter would train Bravo in mind, spirit and body, but would keep from him any knowledge of the Order. Neither of them ever spoke of what would happen when Dexter felt Bravo was needed in the Order. However, in Dexter's mind, Bravo was destined to take over for him when he stepped down as Keeper.

Jenny was her father's only child. The one ray of joy in an otherwise unfulfilling marriage. He made it his life's work to see her inducted into the Order, despite many others' objections because she was female. The ways in which women are treated in both Orders down through the centuries is a major theme in THE TESTAMENT. How these difficulties shaped the lives of the two main female characters --- Jenny and Camille --- is both profound and poignant.

Q: How did your experience writing THE BOURNE LEGACY shape this book?

EVL: LEGACY can easily be read as a strict action adventure story. But, for me, the pleasure and the unique quality of the novel has come through the developing father-son relationship between Bourne and Khan. This character arc is what drives the book.

The very same thing can be said for THE TESTAMENT. Many readers will no doubt read it as an action-adventure filled with fascinating tidbits about medieval life and lore. But, for me, what drives the novel is, again, the father-son relationship, so very different than the one I created in LEGACY.

Astute readers may wonder why I seem so fixated on father-son relationships. In fact, this began all the way back with THE NINJA. Nicholas' father is, to my mind, one of the best characters I ever created. If it wasn't for him, there'd be no story. The answer is long and complicated, but the short version is that my father, who died several years ago, was my best friend and confidant. My relationship with him was complex, sometimes difficult, but always immensely rewarding.

Q: Does this book come from a more personal place than your previous bestsellers? Do you identify with Bravo?

EVL: I think all my books come from a personal place. That's how I write. I always have and I always will. I don't believe you can write a compelling novel unless part of you is involved on a personal level. That's not to say that my novels have a particular political or moral axe to grind. I think that's for other writers. I try to stay strictly agnostic. I've prided myself on making my antagonists as real as my protagonists. Everyone --- even the darkest of individuals --- have reasons for doing what they do, even if it's only the misguided notion that what they're doing is right. Motivation is everything. Without it, any character is just a cardboard cutout, and of no use to me.

Q: What do you hope your readers will take away from your book?

EVL: I would hope that through reading THE TESTAMENT they'd gain a better understanding of how the world works. An understanding of how the past always informs the present. A sense that there are solutions, there is always another way. A realization that a knowledge of history is essential in coping with the complexities of modern-day life. It's true what they say: knowledge is power.

© Copyright 2006, Eric Van Lustbader. All rights reserved.

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